Simplifying Coaching: Doing Less, Empowering Thinkers

In this episode of the Coaching Book Club Podcast, Christy and Ken explore Simplifying Coaching by Claire Pedrick — a short but powerful book that challenges the assumption that more complexity makes coaching better. Instead, Claire invites coaches to do less, listen more, and create space for transformation.

You’ll hear:

• Why coaching isn’t about doing for the client, but creating conditions for thinking
• The importance of contracting and shared clarity in every session
• How tools & models support — but shouldn’t drive — the coaching conversation
• Practical takeaways to strengthen your coaching presence and confidence

Whether you’re an emerging coach or seasoned pro, this conversation offers clarity about when to step in — and when to step back so your clients generate their own insights.

Get the Coaching Book Club Guide to Simplifying Coaching + earn CCEs: https://the-coaching-book-club-podcast.kit.com/23165c82d1

Transcript

Christy Stuber: 0:11

Welcome to the Coaching Book Club podcast, the show that empowers coaches through books. I'm Christy Stuber here with my friend and co-host Ken McKellar, and today we're talking about Simplifying Coaching by Claire Pedrick. A short but incredibly powerful book that challenges the idea that more is better in coaching. Instead, it's about doing less. Listening more and creating space for transformation. And here's what you can expect in this episode. First, we'll start with a quick overview of the book, what it's about, and why it matters. Next we'll break down three key takeaways that stood out to us and share how you can apply these insights to your coaching practice. And finally, we'll explore how these concepts connect to real world coaching challenges and help you build confidence, tackle imposter syndrome, and grow as a coach. Whether you've read this book before or are hearing about it for the first time, you'll leave with actionable tools to strengthen your coaching skills. So let's get started. Hey Ken, how are you doing? Hey, how you

Ken McKellar: 1:10

doing? I'm doing good. How you doing?

Christy Stuber: 1:12

Good. So what, uh, what was meaningful for you about choosing this book,

Ken McKellar: 1:22

Claire? Yes. Yes. If I had an easy button, it'll be yes. Yes. One of the things that stood out for me in a book reminded me of a scene from the Five Heartbeats movie.

Christy Stuber: 1:43

Hmm. I don't remember this movie. Tell me more.

Ken McKellar: 1:46

Yeah. Well, um, Duck was getting ready to get married and his brother, he was like saying, no, you can't marry this girl. You can't marry this girl and give him all this input. And he said. It is not about you, jt. And I was like, yeah. And coaching is not about me. It's not about me, it's about the thinker. And I also love the fact that she used the word thinker and we've heard thinker, um, with the heart and, and Norman, right? Mm-hmm. But it came from Klein. Right. So from the decline, so I, I'm big, big fan of Nancy Klein, so the fact that thinker kind of being ingrained in like a style of coaching or, or that side of coaching, I'm really excited about, um, because coaching gets an opportunity to start to get his own footing as well as his own kind of language.

Christy Stuber: 2:49

Mm-hmm. I've been thinking a lot about that word thinker. You know, I first heard it, I think I first heard it from Clare Norman who referenced it from Nancy Klein, and then recently I've heard Lyssa de Hart using it as well, and I'm, and then of course, Claire Pedrick uses it. And I like the idea of thinking about thinking, us being, thinking coaches. We're not a football coach, we're not a soccer coach. We're a thinking coach, which means we help people think better for themselves. Um, which I dunno if you remember in a previous episode I talked about. This word that I think I made up called Thinkability, which is like how to help people learn how to think more for themself. Um, when I read this book, I have to tell you because you've introduced me to everybody that I have needed to know. And I started reading this book and I think I messaged you on page 11. And what I wanted to say to you, and I didn't say it to you, was. How come you didn't tell me about this book already? Because I'm sure you mentioned this book to me at at times my conversations and it just did not stick and so I am so happy we read this book. I, I think what it did for me overall was help me think differently about the value of coaching and that. I used to think that the value of my value of coaching was what I was doing, right? How I was creating meaning for my client, how I was doing for my client. And now to think like, oh, my job is to create what she calls this container so that my client has the room to create meaning for themselves, which is always more important. Um, that shifted something in my brain to think about in terms of the value of what I have to offer the people that I work with. So should we dive into some key takeaways that stood out to us?

Ken McKellar: 4:49

Yeah. Well I can tell you one of my biggest takeaways is very similar to what you was talking about.

Christy Stuber: 4:54

Yes.

Ken McKellar: 4:54

And coaching works best when responsibilities stays exactly where it belongs. Not with the coach, not with the model. Not with the technique. With the thinker. Yes. Right. So I mean, it's not, is it, it, it, it, it is not about you jt, you know, so it's not about the coach. Right. And then the different models, the Grow and the Claire, and, you know, we got all these models that, that, that, that were going on and sometimes we really focus on what to say next and what to do next. Um. And the techniques, what technique we're gonna use, um, that we are going to help them calm down or support them calm down, versus it's being about the thinker and where the thinker wants to go, what the thinker wants to do to get outta this session. And us being clear with the thinker about what we're going to do. And I think she does a really good job of the structure. Behind the conversation versus it being in front of the conversation.

Christy Stuber: 6:09

You said a lot of really great things and I covered a few of my takeaways that I had. One was to let the client lead, um, that, you know, she says exploring is a thinker's job. Our job as the coach is to support the process so that they can think and that, um. Tools and models are a last resort, not a first step. And I remember when I was a new coach, those, those tools and models were, I mean, I was holding them in two fists ready to use 'em in any moment because that's really what I was trusting. I wasn't necessarily trusting the process overall. And, and maybe that's okay in coach development, right? That. Tools give us a almost a crutch to lean on. And, and maybe as newer coaches, we need to lean on it more and more until we build up that muscle that we can then put that crutch away. Um, so that we, if we wanna use a tool, if we think it makes sense, we can offer it. But it's not something that we're pushing on our client. I remember you and I having a conversation. Um, I was taking a neuroscience course, Neuroscience of Coaching Course. And I'm I'll. I distinctly remember sitting right here talking to you on the phone and saying, well, when my client comes in, overwhelmed, it's my job to use this tool to help them calm down. And you challenging me on it, of course. And now realizing, all right, it's not my job. I can offer it as a tool. I can ask them what they need, but I don't need to make a decision for them of what they need, and it has to be this tool that I wanna give them.

Ken McKellar: 7:50

Yeah.

Christy Stuber: 7:51

It is not about you jt. No. And it's about core competency. Um, seven, right? Evoking awareness that we're inviting insight through the client led exploration, not the coach led direction. Um, I love the quote from the book. Uh, the tool of greatest value in any conversation is the person you are with.

Ken McKellar: 8:17

Yes. Yes. I had that written down too. It was one of the things I wanted to say too. Yes. That's a mic drop man. That could have come 15 minutes later in this conversation 'cause I was perfect. We can stop with that. Right? You know what? I also like the listening aspect of it. 'cause I'm big on, as you know, Klein's work and, um, listening in the power of listening in conversation. But one of the things she talked about was listening is not about understanding the story, it is about helping the thinker understand themselves. Uh. I like that and I'll even carry that over to even our questions. Our questions are not for us to understand the answers, but for them to go deeper in understanding themselves.

Christy Stuber: 9:16

Yes, yes, yes. She says the more we do as coaches, the less space the thinker has to think, and I, I, for me, that's something I have to work on is shortening my questions. Because the more, yeah, more space I'm taking up trying to create this question, the less space I'm giving my client or my thinker to think, um, how many times have you had a client answer one of your questions that you've given to them and then say, did I answer your question?

Ken McKellar: 9:44

Mm. Yeah. You know what this reminds me of a quote by Nancy Klein. She's coming up a lot today. Um, where she says, is what I am about to say more important than what they are about to think.

Christy Stuber: 10:05

I love that there's a, um, uh, a quote. That she has in the book. Um, it's actually a quote from a poet that says, don't talk unless you can improve the silence.

Ken McKellar: 10:20

Oh, wow. That was not in the book.

Christy Stuber: 10:21

Yeah,

Ken McKellar: 10:22

I remember that. That wasn't in the book. I would've remember. Gave me goosebumps. I know. Don't talk unless you can improve the, the silence. Mm-hmm.

Christy Stuber: 10:36

Absolutely. Um. Let me see if I can find, it's, um, um, Luis Borge, I think is the poet's name. You probably pronouncing that correctly.

Ken McKellar: 10:53

Thank you for that.

Christy Stuber: 10:54

Yeah. Here, don't talk unless you can improve the silence. Said poet Jorge Luis Borge. And because said, that's where, you know, we, we talked about interrupting before. And I think positive provocation. We talked about interrupting and, and she's very clearly, I mean, this book is so simple and so clear. Interrupt the talking, don't interrupt the thinking.

Ken McKellar: 11:19

Right, right, right. I heard that before, that that didn't come from this. I heard that before.

Christy Stuber: 11:31

I mean, I've heard it in other ways too. Yeah. I heard it differently when I read it in this book, and I think because this book is a hundred and like 35 pages, it's not long. It's, it's, everything is stated very simply and clearly, and there's a purpose to everything that I think I heard a lot of things differently Yeah. Than I have in the past. Yeah,

Ken McKellar: 11:56

I agree.

Christy Stuber: 11:57

Um. I think that I cannot stop talking about this book until we talk about, um, contracting and co-creation. Mm-hmm. Because that is what this is all about. You know, this whole idea of, um, of the contract. Yeah. Obviously, it's a competency, you know, competency three establishes and maintains agreements, and it's there for a purpose. The contract, however we ask it, whatever questions we'd choose is really asking three things. What are we doing today? How will we do it? Mm-hmm. How will we know we've done it? And without having answers to those, we don't know that we're in the same place. The analogy choose it through the whole book is, um, air travel, which I love. Yes. And how, um, imagine getting on a plane and thinking you're going to London. And when you arrive, you find out you're in Munich because the pilot was like, well, I had to go to Munich instead. But you thought you had an agreement that we were gonna London. Right. Like in thinking about coaching sessions that I, I know I've been sloppy on at times where maybe I didn't know where my client wanted to go and I took 'em to Munich, but they wanted to go to London. And that could be unsatisfying for people and certainly unproductive. Um, so this idea about right sizing the session and aligning it with a thinker, I think is really, is really useful for me to remember again, because it has a reason, it's there for a reason. What would you add to that?

Ken McKellar: 13:29

Well, I really love that plain analogy. Claire weaves that. The whole plane journey throughout the book. Mm-hmm. And it reminds me that the plane itself does not need to be fixing, staring or constant adjustment. It simply needs the conditions that allow it to fly. That's it. As a coach, we're not the pilot, we're the environment. Creating enough clarity, trust, stillness, clarity, stillness, um, so that the thinker can travel where they need to go. Right? And that's the beauty of competency seven, evoking awareness. It's not me doing the evoking, it's me creating. Partnering with creating the space that I allow awareness to be evoked with inside the thinker that then a thinker can explore what they want to do with that.

Christy Stuber: 14:51

Yeah, she says, quote, when you contract well and are clear about what you're doing today, insights and movement are more likely to have happened. So to your point, like on an airplane, right? When you know where you're going, you're more likely to get there. But with our coaching sessions, if we know where we're going and we've contracted on that, there's more space for insights and movement for our clients, our thinkers,

Ken McKellar: 15:17

you know, my, uh, my daughters, the twin daughters, they play a lot of sports, right? But they do gymnastics, they do triathlons, and a lot of times we travel so. On Thursday or three days before we leave, we, they pack everything, bring everything downstairs, and then make sure that they have everything. So we go through it together and it's packed up. The only thing that's not in there is the hygiene stuff, and they put that in the day of. We do that consistently, right? We know exactly what it is that we're doing, how we're doing it, and why we're doing it. We know it right this past. Weekend, they had a gymnastics competition and a half an hour before we was getting ready to leave, they start looking, they start looking for their, their leotards and their jackets. And man, it was a lot of crying, a lot of yelling, a lot of blaming, a lot of, oh. And I was like, I want to jump in. And I asked, it's not about you, jt, they made this mess. Sit back and let them. But, but that just remind me of like, like what Claire talks. Um, it's is together knowing what are we gonna do with this time we have. A half an hour, 45 minutes, she talked about five minute conversations. What are we gonna do about that? And just being clear on how that time's going to be spent and what we're gonna get at that time, and the expectation of that time. That can be a aha all in of itself.

Christy Stuber: 17:07

Yeah, and I think the reason why that happens with your daughters with more productivity towards their packing and getting ready to go and in coaching is. Is some word choice that she mentions, which is subtle and really strong. Um, I have a habit of saying to my clients, oh, we've been talking for 20 minutes. What, what's different for you now than when we started? And Claire's whole model is everything needs to be dealt with in the present and future. And as soon as I ask a question of, we've been talking for 20 minutes, I've now moved us into the past. So a simple adjustment to say. We have 20 minutes left. What would be useful for that time? Keeps the client moving forward. She, the other analogy she uses is that coaching is like golf and um, in comparison to how I was taught, active listening, when I was originally taught at a long time ago, was like tennis. So active listening, you're hitting the ball over the net, the other person hits the ball back, the ball keeps going back and forth and it has to go back and forth. Otherwise, the ball drops. She's saying No, no, it's more like golf, where the, the client, the thinker is the golfer and you're walking with them and they're gonna keep hitting the ball forward. And then you're gonna walk up to the ball, see what you learn, see what you know now, and then hit the ball forward again. So I like that, um, that shift of present, it's a moving to the present and future versus going to the past and that the words we use can help reinforce that. Mm-hmm. So Ken, what are you going to, um, apply that you've learned in this conversation or in the book, in your coaching practice?

Ken McKellar: 18:52

Well, I think one of the biggest things is the contracting. I like that piece. I enjoy that. So I'm gonna play with that a little bit as far as, oh. Yeah, I'm gonna try that a little bit as far as not only contracting at the beginning, but also at the end and just really just really play with it. What I like about the book is that it gives you an opportunity to just play with some of the stuff that, that she presents. Um. You know, some of it's gonna work really well with what I already do. Some of it'll be a challenge to implement. Some of 'em won't work so well. Um, that's, that's the beauty of it. So really having an opportunity to read this book was, again, so this is my second time reading this, this, this was a, a treat. It was a really treat and. Talking to you with, it reminds me of why I really enjoy having these conversations because like now I gotta go back and find a couple things that you said today that, that I, I must have that been dozing. I don't know what happened that I missed, but they're, it's gold. So just having these conversations with you and doing this, um. This podcast has been really fun, you know, coming towards the end of the year. It's been really fun and I appreciate you. I appreciate this book, and the biggest thing I'm taking away is the continued learning that this gives me the opportunity to participate in.

Christy Stuber: 20:30

Thank you for that. There was so much gold in this book that it's easy to overlook. Pieces, things that stood out to me might not have stood out to you and vice versa. And so I agree with you. I always appreciate hearing your perspective so I can go back and find it and, and integrate it with what I'm thinking. Um, I think that the thing I wanna take away is, um, being aware air, that I believe that my client is whole resourceful and creative. When I don't believe in that, I need to check myself and maybe step aside as the coach. And she has a really lovely way of talking about this in terms of either helping her fixing, um, that when we try to help her fix, we're disempowering the client. And I need to be aware of when, when do I have a habit of doing that? We talked about this a little bit with True to You, the Kathleen Smith book. Like when does my anxiety build up that I want to jump in and fix something for a client? Um, that's my job to be aware. Probably take that to supervision so I can get more insight on that. Um. Right, developing my coaching mindset more and more and more. So I'm aware of when my habits get in the play in the way she, she quoted another person named Rachel Remen, who's a hospice worker, and Rachel Remen says, quote, when you help, you see life as weak. When you fix, you see life as broken. When you serve, you see life as whole and. That's my challenge to myself is how do I see my other, my client, the person I'm working with as whole to make sure I am serving them and empowering them to go on their journey, not mine. So that wraps up our discussion today on applying the key insights of simplifying coaching to real world coaching challenges. We've covered some ideas from how contracting builds true partnership to how presence and pacing creates safety to how doing less actually empowers your client to think more. We hope these takeaways have sparked new ideas for your practice and inspired you to dig deeper into this incredible resource. Before we sign off, we wanna thank you for spending your time with us today. Your commitment to learning and growth is what this podcast is all about. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure to subscribe to the Coaching Book Club on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. In the show notes, you'll find a link to the coaching book guide for Simplifying Coaching so you can make your reading work for you by earning CCEs. And we'd love to connect with you on LinkedIn, follow us for more coaching insights and updates about upcoming episodes, and we're always on the lookout for new books to discuss. If you've got a favorite coaching book that's made an impact on you, send us a message. We may feature it in a future episode. Thanks for being part of our community. And until next time, happy coaching.