Never Not Working: Coaching Beyond Burnout and Busyness

In this episode of The Coaching Book Club Podcast, Christy and Ken explore Never Not Working by Melissa Clark — a thought-provoking book that distinguishes between healthy work engagement and workaholism. While both may look similar on the outside, the internal energy and motivation behind them make all the difference.

Through real talk and laughter, Christy and Ken reflect on their own habits, motivations, and calendars — and invite you to do the same. This episode will help you:

• Understand the line between doing meaningful work and being compulsively driven.
• Recognize how your energy source (love vs. fear) impacts your coaching presence.
• Reimagine recovery — not as laziness, but as leadership.

Whether you’re soaking wet chasing down an idea or scheduling over yourself out of scarcity, this episode will offer grounding and guidance. Tune in for a compassionate look at what fuels us — and how to recover our best selves.

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Transcript

Christy Stuber: 0:11

Welcome to the Coaching Book Club podcast, the show that empowers coaches through books. I'm Kristy Stuber here with my friend and co-host Ken McKeller, and today we're talking about Never Not Working by Melissa Clark. Clark explores the subtle but powerful differences between being truly engaged in your work and being caught in workaholism. She helps see us that while the behaviors might look similar from the outside, the motivation energy behind them couldn't be more different, and that distinction has big implications for how we show up as coaches and as business owners. Here's what you can expect in this episode. First, we'll share a quick overview of the book, what it's about, and why it matters to coaches like you. Next we'll break down some key takeaways that stood out to us and how they might inspire you to reflect on your own motivation and energy use. Finally, we'll talk about how I've been applying these ideas in my co coaching practice, and Ken will also share how he's applying these ideas into his coaching practice and maybe you can develop some strategies you wanna use to experiment with it in your own life. So Ken, what did you think about this book?

Ken McKellar: 1:18

Um, Melissa Clark. We have this saying like when the preacher's talking and they start talking about you as if they were there, we say preachers. Preachers in my living room, preachers at my table. Well, Melissa was definitely in my living room as we talk about workaholic, because I'm like saying, Hey. I just don't do coaching. I am coaching. I'm being coaching. So I read all the time and I, I'll stop. Stop doing what I like to do. Football game, basketball game. To read about something sometimes, because I want to, sometimes'cause it's just like, I gotta finish doing that project or I gotta finish doing that. And the way she described it sound like me. And I was like, uhoh, uhoh. How'd she get here? How'd you, I mean, you even knock on the door, you just showed up in here at the table with a fork because she's ready to eat. As far as. Showing me or demonstrating to me of what this could look like and what also what boundaries could look like for me. So I learned a lot from this book. I was able to put some things into place. Like now I work certain hours, and then after those hours I don't come back in the office. My office is my place of work. I try to grab everything. Sometimes if I forget a cup or something, I'll say, Ooh, that'll be like me driving 60 miles back to the job. So I stay out of it sometimes, depending on what cup it is. If, if it's my good cup, then I'm going and grab that baby. But I mean, I digress.

Christy Stuber: 3:10

Yeah. I appreciate your focus on, on you.'cause I noticed when I sat down with this book, I thought. I can apply this to so many of my clients. And then I paused and I realized it's a Saturday afternoon and what am I doing? I'm sitting on my couch reading this book. Maybe I need to apply this to my life and, and look at my decisions on when I do things. So I found some irony in the fact that it was the weekend and I was reading the book, and I know it's a fine line for me because I genuinely love to read. I love to learn. I love to talk about coaching and I need to make sure I am walking that tightrope without falling onto the workaholic side, so I appreciate how she talked about workaholism as a parallel to work engagement. That we can look at what, um, what fuels us as a way of determining which side of that tightrope I'm falling on. Is it work engagement or is it workaholism?

Ken McKellar: 4:10

Yeah. She talks about compulsion, like being a difference. Mm-hmm. Do I want to, or do I have to? Mm-hmm. And I gotta tell you. Sometimes I have a thought upstairs in the shower and I'll come downstairs soaking wet to get my thought because I got, I gotta get that thought, I gotta work on that thought. And I'm like, uh, that's a little ridiculous. Walking around the house, tracking water all over the place to get, to get a thought out. Um, but it did make me think. Wow. So how often do I do that as I look at myself or even the people that I, I work with, that what, what they call just getting work done versus it branching over to the ter of disrupting their, their life.

Christy Stuber: 5:07

Mm-hmm. Right? Yes. To me, that connects to one of my takeaways, which was about motivation. And that intrinsic motivation doing something because I love it because I find it energizing, it fuels me up, is a good thing. Motivation of I need to, I should, if I don't, then some penalty That is more of a workaholism, uh, mindset from her perspective. And so that was kinda the question I had to stop with myself on Saturday to say, okay, pause. Am I reading this?'cause I want to because it's fueling me up. Am I reading this? Because I know Ken and I are gonna talk about it on Monday, and I'm afraid of what Ken's gonna think if I don't read it. Um. Just get clear on that and so that I know that I'm, I was fueling it on Saturday with my interest in the book and my interest in talking about it, which is not fear-based. It's, it's energizing my, I can feel it in my body right now as I talk. I get excited talking about it.

Ken McKellar: 6:11

Okay. Well then you done put a different perspective on what I was thinking. You know, I was, I was walking around with a cape over my head talking about woes me, but the way you said that, because. It's energizing. I get excited about learning something new or learning something different, or comparing two authors that are speaking along with, with myself and having those, those dialogues that excites me. Yeah. I'm opening up the office on the weekends. Again, office is open.

Speaker 3: 6:45

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Christie. Thank you, Ms. Stuber.

Christy Stuber: 6:49

Well, maybe, um, I need to send you like a waterproof pad and pencil so that you don't have to track water through the house. You can use that excitement in the moment. Your family might appreciate that more,

Speaker 3: 7:01

right?

Christy Stuber: 7:02

Because I'm gonna guess there might be some negative motivation for the rest of your family up your water after you've walked through the house.

Ken McKellar: 7:09

Mm-hmm. One, one of the things that this book does is it does a really good job. Read the book. People read the book. It does a really good job of kind of explaining and also I. Some suggestions or thoughts about how to see it and then what to do about it. So I thought that was really powerful takeaway for me.

Christy Stuber: 7:35

Yeah, I, I also had a, a takeaway where, uh, about recovery and the importance of having recovery time. And there are things that I think I've known and I've learned about, like sleep is important, exercising is important. Um. What I was, what was new to me was her additional suggestion of mastery experiences, so learning and growing in non-work related areas. Mm-hmm. You know, it's a way to give our mind a break from that rumination, that compulsion that we might have about work. Of course, that makes sense. That that tapped into me because of my learning, you know? Mm-hmm. Talent that I like to lean into, and I'm the one who does the improv classes, and I'm the one who, you know, likes to. Try to lift more weight if I can, at the gym. And so it, it, it, I now understand why I like that so much. It makes sense. It's a recovery, uh, strategy for me and my brain.

Ken McKellar: 8:36

You started doing the improv classes, you started that. You started,

Christy Stuber: 8:38

I didn't start it again. You know I did it when we talked about the book. Right. I know

Ken McKellar: 8:41

you did it, but are you doing it now?

Christy Stuber: 8:42

You back doing it? No. Mm-hmm.

Ken McKellar: 8:44

Oh, okay. I was gonna say yes,

Christy Stuber: 8:45

and I know I was gonna say,

Ken McKellar: 8:49

I, I want to,

Christy Stuber: 8:50

I have to find one that works. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Any other takeaway that you had?

Ken McKellar: 8:58

Nothing outside of what you just said. This is wasn't a long book, so it was a, it was a quick read. Mm-hmm. So get the book. I don't wanna go in too much more than, I don't wanna give away too much. So yeah, get the book.

Christy Stuber: 9:15

Yeah, I just had one more thought that I don't really have an answer for. Uh, it just highlighted something for me in my life. She talks a little bit about the history of the industrial revolution and how that changed work and, um, especially in the United States. Mm-hmm. And, you know, it switched to a time is money mentality. It made me think about the work that we do as coaches where w. We are being paid for our time. And so time is money. And how, how do I make decisions around that to make sure that I am making a living that gives me what else I need in life, which is all the other things we talked about. Uh, you know, my yoga, my. Gym membership, my books and all that good stuff. Um, but not to get so tied to it or feel, so again, that compulsion word you used mm-hmm. I think feels right for me. Again here, like I have to work as many hours as possible, but to be more intentional of, you know what, I know this is my good limit of, of clients a day that still allows me to be present and also do things that I need to do to, um, to take care of myself. So just curious if you had any thoughts about that.

Ken McKellar: 10:33

Well,

Christy Stuber: 10:33

I mean, I

Ken McKellar: 10:34

think it's that mindset that I tap into that scarcity mindset. That means I gotta work every hour because it's gonna run out or it's not gonna be there, versus that abundance mindset. And I tend to lean towards the abundance. And one of the things that we kind of alluded to earlier was as far as mastery. I have found out and played with since I, since I read the book, like having those space, like even though there's a bunch of readings, a bunch of stuff that I like to want to do, but just not doing any of that and just playing, just going out, having fun doing stuff with the kids. And what I found out is when I give myself those breaks, it's like emptying a cup and I can feel. Fill more stuff in there and understand it better, use it more flawlessly and have fun with it. It stays fun and as long as it's staying fun for me, I'm gonna attack that well as much as I can. But I need to stop. I need to give it a break. I need to back off and and allow it to kind of drain out so that I can see, feel, and hear the difference in what I'm doing. Yeah.

Christy Stuber: 11:53

Yeah. I think that's my takeaway from my practice that I wanna be reminded of, uh, that I need to, I have a habit of falling into a little bit of scarcity mindset sometimes, and so I leave my calendar wide open and I, you know, sort of take whatever happens. And, and what I've learned is that when I blocked time off on my calendar. For the things that I need to do, then everything else is better. Um, I'm thinking about, I, I have a coworking space I go to to get outta my house and to do some like deep, you know, heads down time. And I'm not always great about scheduling that first on my calendar. Often I just try to like squeeze it in where it fits in between clients. And so what I wanna work on as a result of reading this book in my practice is putting that in first. My clients will fill in where there's space. That's important time for me.

Ken McKellar: 12:57

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which makes sense because a lot of times if I don't put that time in, then it gets taken by something or someone. It may not be my clients, but a kid is definitely willing to take that time. Dad, can you take me over here? Here? Certainly child, I won't ride and I'll stay fat. Nah, this has helped me out a lot. This has helped me out a lot. I think I might have lost two or three pounds just talking about it just now.

Christy Stuber: 13:28

Great. Do you have a little treadmill going on at your desk that you're working on or you're just, just thinking about the weight of everything has lessened.

Ken McKellar: 13:36

Thinking about the weight of everything that's lessened. I said I lost pounds, not calories. Fair.

Christy Stuber: 13:45

Fair. Well, I think we both agree that Melissa Clark has reminded us that it's not the number of hours we work that defines us. It's the motivation and energy we bring to that work and our willingness to step away to recover. So we hope today's reflections have sparked some thoughts for your own coaching practice. Where is your energy coming from right now, and is it taking you toward or away from the kind of coach you want to be? And if you enjoy today's episode, make sure to subscribe to the Coaching Book Club on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. And we'd love to connect with you on LinkedIn. Follow us for more coaching insights and updates about upcoming episodes. Before we wrap up, we wanna remind you about an event coming up this October. The International Coach Federation Converge 2025, will be in San Diego, and Melissa Clark is one of the signature speakers. So you have an opportunity to talk with her more about her thoughts and, and how you thought about reading the book. This conference is more than just that. It's a global gathering of coaches, thought leaders, and change makers from all corners of the profession. So whether you're looking to deepen your coaching practice, connect with fellow coaches, or get inspired by cutting edge ideas, converge is the place to be. And this year's event is especially meaningful as ICF celebrates its 30th anniversary. A moment to honor the journey of coaching and imagine what's next. So head to icf f converge.com to learn more and register, and we hope to see you there. And until next time, happy coaching.