The Promise That Changes Everything by Nancy Kline: Listening Without Interruption in Coaching

In this episode of The Coaching Book Club Podcast, Christy Stuber and Ken McKellar explore The Promise That Changes Everything by Nancy Kline—a book that dares us to make one powerful commitment: “I won’t interrupt you.” Through personal stories and deep reflection, Christy and Ken unpack how this promise transforms not only coaching sessions but relationships and daily life.

Key takeaways from this episode include:

• The transformative impact of generative attention: How deep listening enhances client insight and trust.
• Navigating the tension between coaching protocols and presence: When to follow structure vs. when to simply be with the client.
• Applying Nancy Kline’s wisdom to parenting and leadership: Real-world stories on the ripple effect of intentional silence.

Whether you’re new to Kline’s work or returning for a refresher, this episode offers fresh perspective on how to cultivate independent thinking and “Thinkability” in your clients—without needing to fill the silence.

Transcript

Christy Stuber: 0:11

Welcome to the Coaching Book Club podcast, the show that empowers coaches through books. I'm Kristy Stuber here with my friend and co-host Ken McKeller, and today we're talking about the promise that changes everything. I won't interrupt you by Nancy Klein. In today's world, independent thinking is needed more than ever. And this book talks about how we can cultivate this in ourselves and all of our conversations. And here's what you can expect in this episode. First, we'll start with a quick overview of the book, what it's about, and why it matters to coaches like you. Next we'll break down some key takeaways that stood out to us and share how you can apply these insights to your coaching practice. Finally, we'll explore how these concepts connect to real world coaching challenges. And help you build confidence, tackle imposter syndrome, and grow as a coach. Whether you've read this book before or are hearing about it for the first time, you'll leave with actionable tools to strengthen your skills. So let's get started. Hey, Ken.

Ken McKellar: 1:12

Woo hoo. Now, now you're going back to my roots, baby. You're going back to my roots, right?

1:22

Man.

Ken McKellar: 1:22

I know. Uh, Nancy Klein. I took a course, not with Nancy Klein, she didn't run the course herself, but it was, it was her course about the whole, the, the thinking and, and groups and sitting with thoughts. So not only did I read time to think, more time to think, but also the promise that changed everything. And then she has another book that's, that's, that's written for her, her, her, her daughter, I think. Um, and that was in a different language. I started to take classes to learn that language so I could read that book and then I found it in English, but I hadn't read that book yet. But man, this one right here. All right, I'm gonna let you go first because I got some, I got some stuff.

Christy Stuber: 2:09

I'm really excited to get in. This is another book that, um, has a density to it. Another book I can probably go back to and probably will go back to many, many times in the future. Um, I was introduced Nancy Klein from you, I believe, as you often have introduced me to many amazing authors in the coaching world.

Ken McKellar: 2:29

Yeah. But I'm gonna need you to, to just kind of, to pick up that, that energy level when you said that right. I was introduced to Nancy Kle by my co-host, Ken Teller, something

Christy Stuber: 2:42

like along those

Ken McKellar: 2:43

lines. You

Christy Stuber: 2:44

don't have to do it. You do it so well for yourself. I will say I did not read Nancy Klein until it was assigned to me in a supervision course that I took with, uh, Damian Goldberg. And I read more time to think and you kept pushing and pushing that this is the book, the Promise that Changes Everything is the book that we had to do on the podcast. And I'm so glad that you did. As always, you always have. Better recommendations than I could have brought for myself it, because it really deepened the, the more time to think with, uh, with research and this, this very bold belief and process for how Nancy Klein is executing on this belief that if one thing could change everything for the better, it would be the quality of people's independent thinking. And, uh, also along the way the past few years, I've been studying Bowen Family Systems theory. And there's, of all the concepts in that theory, there's a concept of differentiation of self. And, uh, that's defined as the ability to separate your own thoughts and feelings from others so that you can self-regulate and stay grounded and effective, even in emotionally charged environments. And so I've been. Trying to figure out what does that mean for me? And Nancy Klein is a, another doorway into that for me to consider. So where should we start?

Ken McKellar: 4:12

I, I, when I first read time to think I wasn't a believer. When I read more time to think, I was like, mm. And then when I read the Promise, that changed everything. It pushed me to experiment. And then when I did her class, then it showed up. Here's what happened. I, because basically it said just, you know, just listen. I was like, mm, nah, nah, I gotta say something. Said, nah, can just generative listening, just listen. Listen to Ignite. And I was like, mm-hmm. That may work in the business world, but not, but just listen. So. I, I took my kids to the pool twins, 10 years old and there wasn't 10 at the time. They was a lot younger. Um, probably eight. And you know, they do their thing. They go back and forth arguing, and then I step in and I lay down the hammer. So this time I said, you know what? You know what, uh, Nancy, lemme see something here. So here's what happened. I was resting on the lounge chair. I had my earphones on. Listen to a book, and then all of a sudden I see Grace push Kendall into the pool. I see it and I'm not allowed how to do that. I be pushing and not, I touch and I see it. So I said, uh, I take my earphones off, I put it under the chair and I put the, the phone under the chair. Right out of sight is about them. I said. Grace and she came with her, uh, dad. She pushed me, push me. I said, Kendall, go somewhere. I said, grace, have a sit right there. I turned and I looked at Grace and I just gave her my vided attention and she started talking to herself. She, I getting in trouble. Okay. So, yeah. So why? I mean, the reason I pushed her, because she pushed me the other day. Uh, the rules are not to push. I'm not supposed to be pushing, so I shouldn't have pushed her. I'm sorry. Can I go play? I said, yeah, go play. And she got up. I didn't say a word. I was like, oh, Nancy, Nancy. And I was like, wow. And that. I interacted with them a lot. It was like the truth serum. I was like, uh, what happened in here? And step back and not say anything. And they start telling and they start to negotiate and they finally, they start talking to me about what happened. And I'm listening to them, not necessarily for the answer, but so they can have independent thought. All right. That was long, long-winded, longer than I thought it would go. But I drifted away from that until I just recently read this book again, and I was like, Ooh, you know what? There we go. There we go. That's the chef

Christy Stuber: 7:18

kiss

Ken McKellar: 7:19

right there.

Christy Stuber: 7:20

It's so hard to do, isn't it? To just sit and listen and not try to insert yourself, your judgments, your judgements, your thoughts, especially when it's your family, especially when it's your kids.

Ken McKellar: 7:35

Yeah, it was hard to do the first time, but man, when you see what happens, when you see them process it, you see them thinking. So that was the pool. But also when I'm having conversations with them, put my stuff away and listening to them, and man, some of the creative stuff that they come up with, I mean, you get to the other side of that interruption and what's over there. It's worth the price of a mission and the the, the price is not interrupted.

Christy Stuber: 8:12

Nancy Klein says that in the book. She says, you know, we're all born, we're all born able to do this mostly.'cause our brains haven't evolved really enough to, to do anything. The problem is as our brains evolve, not evolve, but as they develop, as we get older. We lose the ability to be this attentive without judgment, without assumption, because we're just swimming in a world of polarization and different kinds of feedback that just soaks into our brain and, and it sounds like to me what you're doing with your girls is almost reminding them of. Their ability, their innate ability to do this, and then to be creative and resourceful all on their own by holding that space for them. It's really a beautiful gift that you're offering them. So here's my question. In coaching programs I've taken, I've been taught that as coaches, we need to interrupt. I. That I've been told, you know, if my client is circling the drain, quote unquote, it's my job to interrupt them, to bring them back into a thinking state. And then in this book it talks about how it, I trust that my client is whole, resourceful and creative, and hold the space. They can self-regulate just like your daughter did, as long as I can stay calm and attentive. And so this is, my brain is pulled right in two directions. One is where I get it, and I believe that what Nancy Klein is saying is true, and the rule follower inside of me is like, oh, but I was told I should interrupt because that's my job as the coach and the relationship. And be curious what you think about that.

Ken McKellar: 10:17

I like what Marian Franklin talks. She did laser focused coaching. And one of the things that she said is when they're telling that story the first time, the first, the first story, don't interrupt. Let'em tell that story. And that was very much in line what, what Kline is saying. Let'em tell that story now after we contract. So we're contracting for, um, interruption. Like, I wanna talk about the boat, Ken, and when I get outta here, this is what I want. After talking about the boat, if I start talking about oranges and apple trees, then I'm gonna need you to go ahead and put me back on, back on task. Now that is not Matthew Klein. That's coaching right? The beginning when they're telling their story. That is Nancy Klein, and I think Nancy Klein shows up with. Attention. She shows up with appreciation. She shows up with difference. When she talks about, um, hearing people's views and, and stuff, she talk, she shows up with information or, or, or challenges, you know, that, so she shows up, she shows up there, but most and foremost is attention listening without interrupting, with respect and interest. I think that's the bulk of coaching.

Christy Stuber: 11:45

You know, I love the neuroscience and so the science backs up. You know what you just said, that the generative attention calms the amygdala. Allow serotonin and oxytocin to bath the cortex, which then creates this environment where the thinker, the person who's receiving the attention can then proceed with deep untroubled thinking. And I'm wondering, as I'm still thinking through this, is. When I show up wanting to follow the rules again, quote unquote rules, how does that get in my way to provide generative attention in the beginning of a coaching conversation when I, before I've even said the contract, which may then create more, um. Well not create more, but may not create a space where my client is able to think independently on their own and then gets us into some kind of trouble where then we're not, um, and then they're not able to, not to, to stop talking about the story because they didn't feel like they were heard the first time the story was, was told. So then they wanna keep doing it.

Ken McKellar: 13:01

So what saying, sounds like you're trying to say something, but you're trying hold

Christy Stuber: 13:05

am. I think I'm experiencing a little bit of a thinking environment with you right now. We didn't talk about this where I'm letting it come through and I don't actually know what it's trying to say yet, so I do need to kind of let it keep going a little bit. So let me try it again and say if I am not holding myself in a space where I can provide generative attention because I'm worried about following rules of the ICF, then. When my client is sharing their story for the first time, the beginning of a coaching session, for example, in our contracting part, will they not feel heard? And so then will they need to keep repeating the story because I.'cause I didn't do my part in being, I didn't keep my promise. So was I doing something to cause an interruption in their thought? The way I look, my energy, the way my head tilted, something that has more to do with what I was feeling on the inside. And because of that, they need to keep repeating themselves until they're certain that I've heard them. All right. How is any of that landing with you?

Ken McKellar: 14:26

I know that there is a chance that the client may not feel heard and. They are not feeling heard and finding ways to feel heard. That's a win. If I did something right, I'm not doing it on purpose because I want my clients to feel heard once percent of a time, but that doesn't always happen. So they don't feel heard and they repeat it again. Then to me, that's a signal that,

15:01

Hmm,

Ken McKellar: 15:03

what's going on here? Let me listen even. Deeper with more intentionality, like hanging on to that every word, like it's my favorite sitcom, and I just don't know what's gonna come outta that man's mouth, hanging onto it with just so curiosity, where's this going? What, what's she gonna say? How does, how does this, how does this make sense to her story? Right. Listening with that intensity. Yeah, I trust that good things will happen,

Christy Stuber: 15:42

and I think my theory is if I can do that, then I don't ever need to interrupt because my client's circling the drain because they've, they've gotten, they've been able to, the process, whatever's happening on their own because I am hanging onto every word, listening with interest. What do you think?

Ken McKellar: 16:04

Well, I think sometimes I like to see a good movie for the second time, so we gotta circle around that thing again. Right. And I'll always get something more that I miss. Let's circle around that. So, I mean, you know, there's rules and there's coaching. Once I'm into coaching. I'm more interested in that person that's in front of me. So anything can happen. Right? It could circle the drain, it could come back, it could work. It could not work. If I have no expectations, there's no difference between not working. I mean, it's how they feel when they get out of it. Did it work? I have, I have had coaching sessions. Where if we're talking about M-C-C-P-C-C or a CC, it probably would've failed if, if the evaluation, but for that person it worked. Right. Um, it's just a format of coaching makes it a whole lot easier for me to be consistent. Consistent for the client, and consistent for for them. And part of that consistency is given a space where this feels different. When I'm listening it, it, it, it, they sound different to themselves when they're speaking and they're able to go past that point of interruption because on the other side of interruption, there's a possibility

Christy Stuber: 17:35

and we've barely scratched the surface here, and we've been talking for about 20 minutes. Mm, I know

Ken McKellar: 17:42

part two.

Christy Stuber: 17:45

Well, we revisit it. So what are you, what are you gonna apply to your practice? Something you maybe No. Or something new?

Ken McKellar: 17:56

The best thing that I'm gonna apply to my practice is this right here is a six month mandatory read right here. Um, and I've taken their courses, so I have some really detailed stuff that I can go to. But still, just the reading was just, I mean, re it was a great reminder. It allowed me to get back into how I wanna be with my kids and how I want to be as a coach, and more importantly for me, how I wanna be as a human being six months mandatory read. That's what I'm implementing today. New policy.

Christy Stuber: 18:36

This book connects to what you've been talking about a lot is how does coaching show up as humans? And to me that's what this book is about. Um, and so I agree with you. There's a commitment I wanna make in my personal life to not interrupt. And in my coaching practice, you know, following through in that, I'm also thinking about. Kind of combining Claire Norman's book, cultivating Coachability with this. And so how do we cultivate Thinkability clients? Or how do I cultivate Thinkability in my clients? Um, what do I need to do to create that partnership to let my client know that's what I want? That's what I wanna be there for, is to help them develop their capacity to think for themself.

Ken McKellar: 19:18

Thinkability. Oh man. That just made me, I just, I wish I would've thought of that. I'm kind of jealous over here, like, Ooh, that's good. That's good.

Christy Stuber: 19:28

How you doing, Claire? I have the trademark now. Thinkability. All right, Ken. Well, that's it for today. That's the promise that changes everything. A book that reminded us of the importance of not interrupting and being with the person and listening to them. And we hope these takeaways have sparked new ideas for your practice and inspired you to dig deeper. Before we sign off, we wanna thank you for spending your time with us today. Your commitment to learning and growth is what this podcast is all about. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure to subscribe the Coaching Book Club podcast on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. We'd love to connect with you on LinkedIn and for today, we'd love to hear from you. What do you think? Let us know. Thanks for being a part of our community. And until next time, happy coaching.