Coaching Presence and Power: What James by Percival Everett Reveals

In this episode of The Coaching Book Club, Christy Stuber and Ken McKellar explore James by Percival Everett and its profound lessons for coaches on identity, safety, and performance.

Through the lens of this award-winning novel, they unpack how code-switching, survival strategies, and unspoken truths show up in coaching—and how presence, curiosity, and emotional safety help clients move from performing to being.

Whether you’re a new coach or a seasoned practitioner, you’ll walk away with powerful insights into trust-building, self-awareness, and honoring the full humanity of every client.

📚 Listen now to deepen your understanding of coaching presence and create spaces where transformation is truly possible.

Transcript

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Welcome to the Coaching Book Club podcast, the show that empowers coaches through books. I'm Kristy Stuber here with my friend and co-host Ken McKeller, and today we're diving into James by Perceval Everett, a bold and brilliant novel that reimagines the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn through the eyes of Jim, the enslaved man at the Center of Twain's story. This novel is a literary force. It's won both the Pulitzer and the National Book Award, and today we're especially interested in what it teaches us about being a coach and creating trust and showing up authentically. What it means to see and support the deeper meaning our clients are making of their lives. And here's what you can expect in this episode. First, we'll start with a quick overview of the book, what it's about, and why it matters to coaches like you. Next we'll break down three key takeaways that stood out to us and share how you can apply these insights to your coaching practice. Finally, we'll explore how these concepts connect to real world coaching challenges. And help you build confidence, tackle imposter syndrome, and grow as a coach. Whether you've read this book before or are hearing about it for the first time, you'll leave with actionable tools to strengthen your skills. So let's get started. Hi Ken. Hey, how you doing? How's it going? Good. How are you doing today? I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Yeah, I'm excited to talk about this. Yeah. You know, I, um. I enjoy just kind of reading and, and, and, and, and a lot of times reading books that pertain to coaching or leadership. But every once in a while, my daughter actually, she got me, she's like, oh, I wanna read with you dad. I said, okay. I got a lot of books to read. You know, let's, let's start with, he said, what? No, no, I want to read some nonfiction books. I said, okay. You pick out the books and then so she'll pick out a book and I'll read it and I'm like, dang, I don't know if I can read too many books like this. She said, why not? Because I feel like I gotta smoke a cigarette after I finished some of those passages that you be sending me. That's just some foolishness. But I learned something out of'em. And um, I was in, I was in a training with Coach Diversity Institute and one of the trainers I. Uh, Jojo. She mentioned James, and I said, okay, let me read this. And the first three chapters told me everything I needed to know about why this book was important as far as coaching.'cause it was more, I mean, the storyline was good and it was in entertaining, but it was also about. Being seen, being heard. It was also about invisibility. It is also about coaching presence as a coach, allowing, and here's the big thing. It was about. Honoring that person or that part of that person that's not in front of you right now, their past year, their past 10 years, what they had to do to even get to the meeting or how to even show up, um, how they have to behave or act in their companies. So yeah, let's talk. This book had been on my list for a while, and so when you suggested it for the book club, I thought, great. Finally I can have a reason to read it. Not that I needed a reason, I just have a big, really big to be read stack, so it's hard for me to prioritize. Um, and I had the chance to hear personal Everett speak about this book. One thing that really stood out to me when I heard him speak was that people often ask him, what does this book mean? And his response was, I don't know. It's gonna mean to you. The meaning is yours as the reader, based on who you are, your identity and all your experiences, you'll decide what it means for you. And when I heard that, I thought, uh, that's coaching right? It's not up to me as the coach to make meaning of my clients. It's up to them to make meaning of what they're saying. He's saying as a writer, it's not his job to make meaning. His job is to put something out and let us figure out what it means to our us. So I really loved that introduction to the book and, um, that message of meaning that to me connected throughout the book as well. So, should we get more specific and talk about the three, uh, key takeaways that stood out to us and how they're gonna enhance our coaching? Yeah, let's do that. Okay. You go first this time. I always go first. So I think what I would say then to start is, um, this idea of performance and power dynamics. So there's a quote from the book. My performance for the Boys became a frame for my story. My story became less of a tale as the real game became the display for the boys. It made me think of two things. One is as coaches, how do we know when our clients are performing? And I don't necessarily mean performing as not being honest, but performing in as surviving, protecting. Um, I think about clients I've worked with, maybe really high achieving leaders who feel they need to be the expert, you know, or emerging coaches as who feel like they need to sound polished. They're not being disingenuous, they're not being dishonest. They're navigating a world that's taught them that vulnerability isn't safe. And so you need to perform in a certain way to protect yourself. Um, in the book, this became about how James speaks depending on who's around him, which is referenced in that quote. And, and so made me think about how am I performing when I show up with my clients? If I have a client who I'm really maybe intimidated by, am I starting to do a little like tap dance in front of them to try to make them like me or think that I know something which can really then impact the trust and safety if I'm not showing up genuine, genuinely and authentically as to who I am? So I feel like as a coach, our first job is not to try to get our clients to open up, but to show'em that they can and to show'em they can. By us doing it first. What's landing for you in that? Yeah, I like that. I like that. What was, it was Huck Finn, right? Mm-hmm. That was, yeah. I like, I like what the book started out saying. I'm gonna get back to what you're, what you're saying in a minute. It, it'll lead right up there, just like a refreshing lemonade on a hot summer day. Okay. So they were talking, uh, Huck Finn says, I saw some tracks in the snow. James responded, there are a lot of tracks in the snow. That's where folks leave them, and I thought that was the epitome of this book. There. That person shows up or may not show up, but where they've been, there are tracks that marks where they've been and sometimes. Is the reason why they're behaving the way they're behaving, or they're doing what they're doing now, what you talk about. Like that one scene when they started talking one way and talking another way, um, that, that's pretty much known as code switching. Right. And if you're not sure about what code switching is or you think you've seen code switching in in. In your company or, or you're not familiar with it? You heard people talk about it. Well, that first chapter, it talks about it, not only does it talk about it, it talks about the importance of it. Like, you know, people were teaching people how to code switch in the book. It's like, Hey, when you say this, you say this. No, no. You said you said it too. Correct. You have to say it. It has to be incorrect. You know, that was correctly incorrect, I think is what he said. What I'm getting at is you, there's some, there's some way of being that people feel like they need to be in order to to survive. Right? And this is what this book was saying. It wasn't like, Hey, I need to survive so I can get a promotion. Hey, I need to code switch, so perhaps, you know, I get my job. This right here was code switching to live. Like if you could read. You were being burned at the tree put on fire. If you could read right, if you was too smart, or if you made people to feel dumb. I mean, you were basically, your life was at risk, your family's life was at risk. You was and at risk of being hurt or being shipped off or being sold. So it was a lot at stake. And I was thinking as I was reading this book, you know? Yeah, this is a lot at stake. When people come to see us, there's a lot at stake. Is this a space where I can truly be my authentic self? Is this a space where I can take off my mask? Because I know as a coach, this is a space where they can take off their mask, not so I can see them, so that they'll have the opportunity to see themself in a different way. That they can then elevate their situation to choice. What I would add to that is this idea of language is safety, which I think is what you said. Um, there's a quote from the book that says, safe movement through the world depended on mastery of language fluency. And I can think about from my lived experience, maybe you have your own lived experience when I've used. Words tones, silence as a purpose to keep me as a shield, to keep me safe in different settings. And I think about our clients who show up that way too. They just learn different ways of being to be safe, and we have to honor that, right? That, that that is what they're doing. And then staying curious about how, how that's helping them stay safe. Maybe how that's holding them back in, how they're seeing themself. Which I think leads me to, um, my next point. If it's okay, then I'll let you start with the last one. Mm-hmm. I don't wanna give too much away with the book because it's still fairly new and people might not have read it yet, but, you know, there is this arc with Huck Finn's character and his relationship with James that is, um. I think is a demonstration of how trust and safety can, can allow people to be seen. But Huck Finn learned some things about his identity by the end of the book. And there's a quote that says, belief has nothing to do with truth. And, um, you know, he wanted, he believed he wanted to walk through the world one way. But that was maybe the truth of how he, he could walk through the world. He had some options of how he wanted to be seen, and I feel like that's also our job as coaches, right? Is to help our clients distinguish between the beliefs they've inherited and, and what they wanna claim as their truth and their au authenticity. What do you think? I was thinking, what? We're gonna have to cut some of these things off because she's gonna tell it. She's gonna tell it. Tell it. Be careful. Be careful and go on. You walk in that fine line. I now I, I, um, I agree in terms of. That allowing peace. But in the coaching space, I think there's a lot of dynamics that go on. You know, there's that allowing peace. There's a support piece. There's the challenge and peace, right? And there's that giving space to peace. So a lot of stuff is going on. And at the forefront is the high five of a coaching relationship, which is trust, safety, rapport, connection and respect. And I think that at that's being the forefront, you know, if we are, you know, trusting, you know. Ourselves to be ourselves, like you said earlier, if we are able to connect to ourselves.'cause it's about us coming into that relationship and how we show up. You know, showing up, knowing that, hey, we have biases, I. And are we doing work on our own biases? Are we doing our work on our own acceptance? Are we doing work on our own, the way we encourage or lift ourselves up? Because that walks in the room with us. And sometimes, especially when things get uncomfortable, you go back to your default and what is your default? And how do you elevate? Elevate your default? And so this book just reminds me of. I wouldn't say a wake up call because I'm woke in a sense that. I know that I don't show up everywhere, my authentic self all the time. A hundred percent more so now than 10 years ago, 15 years ago. Right. And I know that people that I've worked with, you know, it is, it is taken some time before they show up as an authentic self. And there's some people, they come in and it's almost like a breath of a fresh air. Like, ooh, okay. So the safety and the trust. Was there for them, for whatever happened in that space that they was allowed to do that, and because they was allowed to do that, man, there's some rich opportunity for folks to talk about some things that they normally don't, to come up, some answers, some awareness for themselves that maybe they wouldn't have broached or talk about. So, impact. Impact, you know. When we meet folks, how it impacted. How we impacted. Yeah, that's, that's my thoughts for now. Mm, mm-hmm. Thank you. What is the last takeaway you have from the book? The last takeaway has a lot to do with, you know, a lot of what's going on. In the United States now, you know, just the, well, we're not, I mean there's an acceptance is low on the hierarchy of, of interactions. Right. And in a lot of the cases, I mean, and, and from this book, it's like, woo, people had to go through some stuff, right? And as coaches, people are going through some stuff and we may not see none of it, but it's still there. And as coaches, we can have the opportunity to hold space for that too. Even the stuff that we don't see. Oh, there's a another quote from the book that relates to this, that to me felt like what coaching is. Um, the quote is, my interest is in how these marks that I am scratching on this page can mean anything at all if they can have meaning. Then life can have meaning, then I can have meaning and how it's connecting to me. What you said is, even if we don't hear it from our clients, acknowledging them as a whole person can help them discover what gives their life meaning, right? If they feel. Trust and safety to be who they are completely. Even if they never express it to me as their coach, they get to decide what to do with that and maybe feel safe enough to start to express it in a different way. Mm-hmm. They get to decide. Yeah. Right. Creating an environment where, hey. There's choice, there's partnering, there's collaboration. Mm-hmm. Right, right. And a place to practice. If they want to speak their truth, their context, what they're going through, great. If not, that's okay. Mm-hmm. But maybe just the space that we create or give them courage to try it in a different setting. So Ken, what are you gonna be applying to your coaching practice as a result of reading this book? Safety is not a matter of doing. It's a matter of being and putting that in the forefront. I. Of my mind. Mm-hmm. How do you do that? Well, allowing people to express their truth. Allowing people to express their anger, their frustrations, their excitement, their excitements, their commitments. Their worries, you know, their triumphs. Right. Allowing that without me having to stepped in, molded, shaped it, co-sign on it by allowing their words to be their words, using their words, using their language. I am moving to sit next to them. Mm-hmm. Beautiful. And my, my takeaway, again, we'll relate to that a little bit in that I'm, I think about my own performance dynamics. You know, how do I show up when I'm feeling scared, intimidated, under pressure, and how does that impact the trust and safety I'm trying to build with the client? So if I'm moving to sit next to somebody, but I'm. What I call entertaining mode. For me, when I get like anxious, I turn into the entertainer and I'm like juggling balls and knives and stuff, and I'm trying to sit next to the my client, how safe are they gonna feel opening up to me, right? As opposed to if I can move in with a calm, confident presence to sit with them. What's the difference? So it's not. You know, we are in the power, we are in the dynamic with our client. We become part of it with them, and that's our, our work is just to be aware of what we're bringing into that space that may impact the relationship. Anything you wanna add before we wrap up for today? Read the book. Read the book. You know, I'm gonna add that. Read the book. I mean, we talked about the book, but we didn't talk about the book. I mean, the story, the journey, the relationship, and even the book itself. I mean, very powerful book in many ways. There's so much more to talk about in, in terms of the book. Um, it is a beautiful book. I'm really glad I read it. And, um, we only talked a little bit that, sorry to relate to coaching. There's probably more that we missed. We'd love to hear from other people who are listening to this podcast. What did you think? Um, and so that wraps up our discussion today on James by personal Everett. As Ken said, this is a powerful novel and an invitation for us as coaches to reflect on identity, safety, meaning, and truth. We hope today's episode gave you some new ways to think about your practice and your presence. And before we sign off, we wanna thank you for spending your time with us today. Your commitment to learning and growth is what this podcast is all about. And if you enjoy today's episode, make sure to subscribe to the Coaching Book Club on your favorite podcast platform. So you never miss an episode. We'd also love to connect with you on LinkedIn, follow us for even more coaching insights and updates about upcoming episodes. And we're always in the lookout for new books to review. So if you have a favorite book that's made an impact on you, let us know. Who knows, it might be featured in a future episode. Thanks for peeing being part of our community. And until next time, happy coaching.