Exploring the Power of Metaphors in Coaching with Lyssa deHart's Light Up

Unlocking Coaching Confidence with Metaphors: Insights from Light Up

In this episode of The Coaching Book Club, hosts Christy Stuber and Ken McKellar explore Light Up: The Science of Coaching with Metaphors by Lyssa deHart — a must-read coaching book for anyone looking to enhance their coaching skills and leadership strategies.

Metaphors are powerful tools that can transform coaching conversations, helping clients connect with abstract ideas in meaningful and memorable ways. Whether you’re a practicing coach, a new coach seeking confidence, or a manager looking to improve leadership coaching skills, this episode offers actionable insights you can apply immediately.

Christy and Ken break down key concepts from Light Up, revealing how coaches can:
✅ Use metaphors to deepen client conversations and build trust
✅ Develop practical coaching techniques that inspire clarity and insight
✅ Apply coaching strategies to tackle imposter syndrome and boost confidence
✅ Enhance coaching skills for managers and leaders navigating complex conversations

This insightful book review podcast offers practical coaching takeaways and tips for developing leadership coaching skills. Whether you're building your coaching practice, exploring coaching techniques for beginners, or searching for the best coaching podcasts for managers, this episode will leave you with fresh ideas and strategies to elevate your coaching conversations.

Tune in to discover how metaphor-driven coaching can create transformative learning moments — and take your coaching skills to the next level.

Transcript

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Welcome to the coaching book club podcast, the show that empowers coaches through books. I'm Christy Stuber here with my friend and co host Ken McKellar. And today we're talking about Light Up, the Science of Coaching with Metaphors by Lissa DeHart. This book explores the power of metaphors in coaching. Showing how they deepen client conversations, build trust and create transformational learning by making abstract ideas more tangible and accessible. So here's what you can expect in this episode. First, we'll start with a quick overview of the book, what it's about and why it matters to coaches like you. Next, we'll break down key takeaways that stood out to us and share how you can apply these insights to your coaching practice. And then finally, Ken and I will explore how these concepts connect to our real world coaching challenges and help us build confidence, tackle imposter syndrome, and grow as a coach. So whether you read this book before or are hearing about it for the first time, you'll leave with actionable tools to strengthen your skills. So let's get started. Oh, hi, Ken. Hey, how you doing? Good. Welcome to our inaugural podcast episode. I'm so curious to hear from you. What felt important about Lissa DeHart's book to you? Well, before I get into that, let me say, man, first of all, it's happy to be a part of this podcast and having the opportunity to talk about books. I mean, I enjoy talking about books and sometimes I read a book and I go around looking for somebody to talk about it with and everybody's kind of hiding and moving. What's going on? Ken's coming. What's going on with Ken? He's going to talk about a book. He's going to ask about a book. He wants to tell a story about a book. So now this is a framework or a format where not only we get to talk about books that have impacted us, right? As it pertains to coaching. So I'm, I'm really excited about this podcast and have an opportunity to work with you in this, this venue. Yeah, this really has been a continuation of conversations you and I have all the time about what we're reading. And we decided we wanted to do something a little bit more formal. So super excited to be here with you. So our book for today, light up. Yeah. So, I mean, first of all, The heart's amazing and for, in terms of metaphors, I mean, she does break down the science of the book and how it lights up and uses different parts of the brain. That's good. Read the book, but man, when she uses a lot of examples in the books, coach, client, and kind of what that, what it sounds like, man, that is really, really valuable. And then she breaks down metaphors in a way. That fit, fit me because I studied meta before that, before that clean coaching, which she talks about in, in the book, but the way she described it, it's exciting. It is exciting. And I think for me, the science was what was most interesting. I've studied neuroscience in the past, partners in neuroscientists. So I love talking about how brains work. And I was really, um, interested to hear the science about how metaphors take away cognitive load. So that we can make complex ideas easier to grasp with our clients. Yes, I agree with that. I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't, I mean, the science part, I was like, all right, cool. How can I use it in the coaching session or, or, or more so like, wow. Okay. Like the big thing is using my metaphors versus listening to their metaphors. Now, now, um, Uh, Marian Way, she talked about that in Clean Coaching, but once again, DeHart really just, those examples that she used, many of them, really highlighted, this is, okay, now I'm catching it, right? Even when she talks about like, dead or frozen metaphors. Like the ones that we really, we use so commonly that we just kind of think that, hey, it's not a metaphor, um, versus the I metaphors. Like, I'm feeling like I'm floating like a butterfly going down a flight of stairs, going from one way to another way. Right, that's a little bit more obvious to work with. More fun maybe to work with. Um, so it seems pretty obvious that this book resonated with us. Um, maybe let's talk about some takeaways. That we each, uh, that stood out to each of us. For me, one, man, I had a lot of takeaways, first of all, and I just want to shout out to Lisa DeHart and her work. If you don't know her, go get a book, get to know her. She's not only a phenomenal author, but a phenomenal person. So shout out to her. My biggest takeaway is really listening for the metaphor. And like, you can use that. In a coaching session, in terms of speaking to the metaphor, not necessary, like, I feel like a car that's bent up. Right? So what is that car that's bent up? Right? You can really start speaking to the metaphor versus what does that mean? What is a car that's bent up? Like pulling yourself out of it. She talks, like, speaking to the metaphor, you really get, in all actuality, you're speaking to what's going on in that containered language. Like, they talk about, she talks about metaphor being a container moving from one, um, to another. And I think that really shows up as you speak to the metaphor. And I want to add on to that, um, how it helps me think about how to partner with my clients when I'm using their metaphor. Early, you said. One of your things you learned was the importance of using our client's metaphors rather than our own. And, um, as I've been on my journey to mastery and coaching, still on my journey, uh, I've been thinking a lot more about partnering and what that looks like. I'll have my client lead and me partner with them. And, um, I really like how, uh, Core Competency 6 listens actively, aligns with what you just said about the metaphors, you know, noticing and exploring the client's language. Deepen understanding. So instead of trying to take what they said in turn in my own words, just staying with them. Let's play with that car. You know, what, where's the dent in the car? What does it look like? How'd that get there? What do you want it to look like to, to, to really partner with them and to show them that I'm on there with them. You know, when you say partnering, that also leans to competency for, if you will, you know, cultivating trust and safety, and when you start using folks as language. Well, we start to feel like we're heard, feel like we're appreciated, feel like our unique self is taking an account into this conversation. So that right there is, trust and safety is big for me in coaching relationships. And I think utilizing metaphors is also a vehicle towards speaking other people's language. Right. That was my other takeaway as well, Cat. No surprise about building trust through metaphor is that when we're really listening to them, using their words or validating their experience, and we're deepening our own understanding without imposing my own interpretation onto it. And I'm really listening to their words. Yeah. What about another takeaway? Well, another takeaway is you don't only have to use this in coaching now I get to show off in coaching with it, but man, I, I can use this in all facets in relationships and conversations with my kids. Matter of fact, me, my. Youngest adult daughter will have conversations metaphorically for like a half an hour. And we're just speaking to the metaphor. I have no clue what's really going on in her end of the world. But once we get off that phone, she felt heard, she felt accepted. And she has a plan because she was able to write, mend her metaphor, so to speak. And for me, that's connected to my other takeaway. Um, again, back to the neuroscience, which I've already admitted to loving to talk about, about using, um, when you're staying connected with your client, you're building that trust, you're using their language, you're building, um. You're really helping them stay in their their P. E. A. The positive emotional attraction. And this is the work that Richard Boyot says and Anthony Jack did at Case Western, uh, importance of this right when we allow our client clients to stay in that P. E. A. State is they can feel more open, empowered and creative. And therefore more likely to see possibilities and take action. So I'm guessing your daughter after that conversation of you talking with them through metaphors probably put action to the words. When maybe they wouldn't have if you had been, you know, talking down to her in some way. Hey daughter, you need to do this. Does that land with you at all? Right. Or, yeah, I mean, or it could've been something that we normally wouldn't talk about. Although, my kids are too open for that. Like, Oh, can we go to metaphors, please? Oh, can we go to metaphors, please? Too much detail. Right, right, right, right. Talking the abstract. Yeah, that's right. Right, so we can all talk warm and, and, and fuzzy. No, really, it's not only that. It's, it's. Once again, it's that container, right? I hear you, you hear me, um, especially when I use her words, her metaphors, you know, I mean, she'll say facts, no printer, right? Right now. I'm not quite sure what that means right at the beginning, but I say fax to a printer it's a bill is a connection because not only did I Listen here and then also later on bring it back to her. She hears and understands. I'm listening hearing and appreciates who she is as a unique Being, and that's when we speak to our metaphors, we're speaking to that unique being, because every metaphor that it brings to us, it's saying something, it's saying something coming from somewhere. And unique. There's no way that we can know. I'm thinking here about a real world challenge. Um, if it's okay, do I move on to that where I had a client recently who did not have English as their first language. And they brought up a metaphor to explain how they were feeling and, and it was only through me exploring that metaphor with them that I really understood. The image wasn't one that I would have thought of, but to them it made a lot of sense. And I think because we were talking in a metaphor, we now had a shared image of something. Almost like pick it up, look at it, turn it around. And, um, it made the conversation go more smoothly, rather than my client trying to describe these abstract concepts in a language that isn't their, their first language. Right, it gave us a concrete thing to play with. And I think it allowed the client's thinking to be expanded. And help them gain some deeper insights through this image that they were using to describe their situation. How else have you seen metaphors working in real life? Well, no, I want to piggyback off of that because I think that one of the things that I enjoy about metaphor is that connection is that Like, am I, am I seeing what I'm hearing? I cannot see this, right? Can I pick this up? Can I like, so can I, can I relate to it? And if not, you know, being curious about what that is, you know, sometimes I, when I talk to coaches, I said, you know, when they're speaking and talking is almost like they're painting on a canvas, their ideals or their emotions. Right? And I can't see it. I just only tell by what I'm hearing, or maybe even some non verbal cues, and that is what I'm speaking to, right? It sounds like X, Y, and Z, and they can fill it in a little bit better for me. Well, yeah, it is, and they can fill it in. Or, no, actually It's not that it's this and that helps me see, feel in here a little bit more clearly what that part of their life that that they're explaining to me, right? Let's be clear as a coach, they're explaining it to me for them, not necessarily for me, right? But by me asking those. Questions are speaking to the metaphor that allows them to speak to their metaphor or answer to their matter for their own answers and make it make sense for them. Right. The great reminder of it doesn't actually have to make sense to me as a coach. It needs to make sense to my client. Right, right. That's right. So that being said, I don't have to say, Hey, so, uh, So when you say a car going up a tree, what do you mean car going up a tree? Cars don't go up a tree. Mm mm. No, no, boo boo. We, we, I don't, hey, tell me a little bit more about that car going up a tree. It's going fast? Slow? Come on. Talk to me. Well, it's going fast. Okay. Come on. Okay. Where's it going? Well, that's the problem, kid. Not sure where it's just going. Just shooting up the tree. And as you say that now, what's coming up for you? Well, actually. I'm noticing that it's shooting up the tree because it's trying to get somewhere fast. I noticed you're using your hands a lot. When you say get somewhere fast, what else is coming up for you? And then on and on and on in the conversation. What a great example. Um, Any last words of wisdom before we move to our wrap up for today? Read the book. Read the book. If you don't agree with me, or if you agree with me, reach out, reach out to us and say, Hey, I read the book. And, and give your thoughts, right? Also, if you liked the book, you enjoyed the book, right? Reach out to the author, right? Write some reviews because man, they put a lot of work in to this stuff. And we'll be talking about a lot of authors. That's what we do. So if you like it, go ahead and reach out and leave a review for them saying how much you appreciate their work. A lot of authors rely on word of mouth, right? To get their books sold. And there's a lot of great books out there. And we're going to discuss many of them, hopefully, over the next however long you and I decide to do this. Um, for today, I think that wraps up our discussion on our first book, The Coaching. Um, for today, I think that wraps up our discussion on our first book, Listen to Hearts, Light Up the Science of Coaching with Metaphors. We went from trust to growth in the conversation about how metaphors can be used and how they transform the way that we can approach coaching. Uh, listeners, we really hope these takeaways have sparked new ideas for your practice. and inspired you to dig deeper into this incredible resource. As Ken said, buy the book, you can find it at your library, um, and write a review, get in touch with the author. Before we sign off, we want to thank you for spending your time with us today. Your commitment to learning and growth is what this podcast is all about. And if you enjoyed today's episode, make sure to check it out on your favorite podcast platform. We'd also love to connect with you on LinkedIn. You can find the coaching book club podcast page, uh, connect with us, follow us and get updates on upcoming episodes. And we're always on the lookout for new books to review. So if you have a favorite coaching book, that's made an impact on Send us an email at coaching book club at christystuber. com. And who knows, you, maybe your book will be featured in a future episode. Thanks for being part of our community. And until next time, happy coaching.